Donald Trump has agreed to a presidential debate with Kamala Harris on September 10th in Philadelphia.
It will be highly-charged and highly-viewed, especially after a poor debate performance by Joe Biden in June resulted in his eventual withdrawal from the race.
Harris and Trump have never debated each other, so our Kyle Odegard spoke with Will Baker, the director of the NYU Global Debate Program, for insight heading into the crucial first showdown.
Kyle Odegard: The debate between Biden and Trump had huge ramifications. How big of a deal will the first Trump-Harris debate be, knowing all that’s happened in its lead-up?
Will Baker: “I think it’s going to be huge. As you indicated, it’s now going to be a partial litmus test since it’s the thing that got Biden out of the race. How will she do in that capacity?
The second thing that’s going to be important, is that it’s the first time we will see them standing on the same stage. That matters a lot to the voters that have a vision of what their president should be, and also how they feel about their ability to do the job and have the appropriate stature and command. “
KO: Facing Trump in debates is a unique challenge. What do you expect from Kamala Harris in this debate? Will there be a lot of strategy involved as her team tries to figure out the best way to counteract the things Trump tends to do in debates?
WB: “I hope she has the right team, because that’s going to decide the answer to that question. The key thing you have to remember is that Trump is not a normal politician who wants to talk about policy. He’s an entertainer and a brawler. If you go in there to throw facts at him while he’s throwing insults, it’s a lot harder to have the debate come out cogent. And if you lower yourself to his level, very often he still wins.”
KO: Do you consider Trump effective in debates? It’s unusual how he does it, but does it tend to resonate with people watching because he gets in zingers and has memorable lines?
WB: “I think those memorable lines help him, and he also wins if people are turned off by it. Like, yuck, this is politics and I don’t like either of them. It’s very hard to elevate the debate, so it will be interesting if her campaign figures out how to do that. They’ve already changed some things in the Democratic playbook, but this is another challenge in that regard.”
KO: There has been criticism from the right that Kamala Harris hasn’t talked often with reporters, hasn’t done a lot of off-the-cuff speaking. Is this an important moment for her, as she talks policy in a freewheeling style?
WB: “I think it’s important. Both sides have their supporters, but there are a whole bunch of folks in the middle that are going to decide this, especially in the battleground states, that are willing to vote for either of them and want to see the impression.
I don’t know if it’s so much about policy, but the demeanor in which she does it. They don’t want to hear a lot of facts. They want presented in plain English: What are you going to do for me that Biden didn’t and that Trump can’t?”
KO: How do you think she did in prior debates?
WB: “The Pence (vice-presidential) debate was pretty good. I’d give it a ‘7’. The media concluded that she won, and her poll numbers were good.
The first presidential debate went well when she got that zinger in against Biden: ‘That little girl was me.’ But she got a little bit cocky about her position and forgot she was running against six people and not just Joe Biden.
That kind of cost her because she tried to pivot like she was the front-runner, and she wasn’t, which caved in her support. So I’d give her a bad grade on that because she should’ve had a better technical and more realistic sense than to be overconfident. She knows it’s a long primary season.”
KO: Was it a good learning experience for her, having all of those eyes on her in national debates? Donald Trump obviously has a lot of experience in such debates.
WB: “Experience always helps. The format matters. I think if the format for Biden had been different, he would have been able to speak to his advisors during the commercial break and gotten coaching, which would have put him in much better shape in that debate.
And also, I think it’s a lot like sports. She should really go back and watch the tape from the Biden-Trump debate. There were so many openings that Trump left on the table, and her ability to pounce is why she was selected for this. There were a lot of the democratic hierarchy that really felt like we need someone that is capable of taking advantage of those moments, when Trump is lying and saying ridiculous things. And hitting home the messages about the foolishness of that. That’s what she needs to be doing in this debate more than anything else in order to be successful.”
KO: How do you foresee the first debate going?
WB: “I think it’s really about the teams. Trump’s team just needs to give him two or three things, and the Harris team needs to do a whole bunch of things. Because there are those tropes that are still kind of true: if a woman is very aggressive, it can come off negatively, even if she’s doing the same thing that a man is doing. So she has all of those side-constraints along with figuring out what her message is and what she’s trying to get done.
If they can shorten it and speak with what the people want to hear, I think she’ll be in great shape. It’s going to be hard for her to win it outright, because the Dems have overplayed their hand and made it sound like she will just crush him in these debates, and you can’t really crush someone who is not going to talk about policies.”
KO: Knowing how close the race looks, can these debates be pivotal when it comes to eventually electing a president? How high are the stakes?
WB: “I always think of debates about a piece of the puzzle but not sufficient on their own. Is it helpful to do well in a debate? Yes. Can you come back closer to the election if a debate goes poorly? Yes. But I don’t think it’s going to decide it.
People almost never vote for the better debater. They’re going to vote on the issues. But it can change the impression of how you hear the arguments, how you hear the commercials and how you hear the information after it.”
