In an exclusive interview with CasinoApps, George Groves said that he believes Anthony Joshua is too scared to retire from boxing. He also gave his thoughts on the upcoming bout between Conor Benn and Chris Eubank Jr.
Q: Let’s start with George Foreman, 76 wins, 68 knockouts, five losses. What an icon and what a loss he’ll be.
A: Yeah he really was (an icon). With my name being George and I was into boxing at seven years of age. People would ask: ‘who’s your favourite boxer?’ I would always answer George Foreman. I’d never seen one of his fights, but I just appreciate we had the same name and as you get older, I think on the old VHSs I had Rumble in the Jungle and a few other fights of his. Then since finding out about him and his story, what a fascinating fighter in an amazing era. He was an incredible champion and arguably one of the hardest punchers of all time.
In this day and age he probably wouldn’t even seem that big, but back then he was a monster, wasn’t he? I think he won the Olympics with his brute force. He was an Olympic gold hardcore back in the day when everyone wanted to be an Olympic champion for boxing. So yeah, an incredible fighter. And he still kept going after he retired, then he as an entrepreneur with the George Foreman Grill. A lot of people were probably knowing him for the grills. I found out a little bit watching his movie that came out a year or two ago where he was the bad guy. Then he decided to revamp and be a good guy. Do loads of commercial staff, loads of advertising. I mean, is there anyone you know who didn’t have a George Foreman at some point?
I know he’s got a lot of kids and a lot of them are called George as well. But you should listen to him doing commentary as well. And it’s funny ’cause like when you’re watching box, you think he’s just a big heavy handed dude. He’s quite crude. What does he know about boxing? But you listen to the way he talks and breaks down boxing. He has that old school knowhow. And that’s how to, how to win a fight, how to read people, how to beat the man in front of you. Because sometimes people get too scientific, too technical, too specific, when really you have to be like big old George and take it back to the basics.
Q: How’s it looking for Lucas Roehrig at the moment?
A: Yeah, brilliant. Really good. So we got another outing down in Brighton at the beginning of March. And he was in a really good, tough fight and it’s all about gaining experience for fighters at this point of his level, his standard. The first time he’s gone the distance, which no doubt, it’s frustrating – you always want to have that 100% KO rate, but that’s the monkey off his back there. He doesn’t need to get further down the line and be desperate to be stopping people to keep up that 100% KO rating. The guy in front of him was southpaw and difficult to land clean on. But he had the job done in every round, dropped him and the guy was fortunate to hear the final bell. So just keep marching on and he’s out again on the 4th of April. He is at my beloved Stamford Bridge. He’s fighting at Chelsea. He’s not on the pitch. But one day he will be…So it’s England vs USA. We’ve got Roy Jones coming over. He’s the team captain for USA, we’ve got our finest – Britain’s own Spencer Oliver is our team captain. He’s up against Roy Jones and he might need a bit of backing, so we’ll have to make sure that the Brits are on song and win.
But he’s in great form (Lucas Roehrig). Hopefully this week he’s gonna be sparring WBC Cruiserweight World Champion, Badou Jack – who I boxed 10 years ago. Jack did the test of time much longer than I did. Now up a cruiserweight a three Weight World Champion, been reinstated as WBC Champion. So this will be the third world champion that he’s sparred with in the last 12 months.
Q: You have got the blueprint of how to beat Eubank Jr. Has Conor’s camp been in touch or have you offered any advice ahead of the fight?
A: I’ve always had a, like a good relationship with Conor from the get go. Like when he first sort of turned pro, I appreciated that he had a lot of pressure on his back and not a lot of experience, and back then he was a very different character to what he’s had to become now. So I’ve always tried to offer any sort of words of advice or wisdom that you have and you gain as you go through. And this time we haven’t gone into it and dissected how to beat Eubank. He’s a very different sort of fighter than I am. Even down to the size difference will be a factor. I think Conor is very much like what it says on the tin. He’s gonna come out, he’s bringing the heat, he’s gonna bring the intensity, he’s gonna open up, he’s gonna try and land a big shot on Eubank, and he’s gonna want to put him away. And I think he will live and die by those words. I can’t see him pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes telling everyone he is gonna knock him out and then come out and try and nick a point win.
And I’ll be honest, I don’t ever want to pick a winner right now because I’ve swayed left. I swayed, right. When the fight was first made, I thought Eubank Jr was maybe too big. And this time round I’m thinking, well actually, a lot has happened in the two years and maybe Eubank has sort of seen his best days. He’s got a lot of miles on the clock. But he avenged that loss against Smith and looks like he’d rejuvenated himself. And now what it’s gonna come down to is who can hold their head because it’s gonna be an intense buildup. We’ve already seen a couple of eggs broken and the rest of it, so we’re in for a treat in terms of the buildup, Eubank has been exceptional, in terms of the way that he’s portrayed himself.
And certainly everything has been on purpose and deliberate. And at the moment he’s taken on not just Conor Benn, he wants to take on everyone. It’s fun, it’s interesting. It builds a fight. But it can be tough, it can be tiring, can be taxing. You have to juggle a lot of things. It’s very hard. And you don’t really realise it at the time ’cause you’re so invested and so tunnel visioned in the process, in the fight. But it can be hard sometimes. This will be the biggest fight of Conor Benn’s career and it’s the biggest fight of Eubank’s career in terms of the build-up and what is at stake. But when it comes to their mindset for training, it might be very different. It might be Eubank thinking, ‘this is not my hardest fight ever’. Conor Benn, probably thinking ‘this is gonna be my hardest fight so far’. So how does that affect their training?
Conor Benn will leave no stone unturned. He’s working harder than he’s ever worked before and Eubank isn’t. He’s training hard and he’s taking it seriously, but he’s not obsessing about it, he’s not thinking about this day in, day out, every moment. It could either be too much or too little. I remember being on the GB squad all those years ago, and I’m obsessing about winning every moment of every day. I want to be up first. I’ll eat my breakfast first. I wanna beat everyone on the bleep test. I wanna be the first round the track. I wanna win the spars. I wanna do this, I wanna do that. I wanna be the guy with the best hydration scores. And then when I looked at some of the other guys – it was like they were just there on a holiday in Butlins, taking it easy. And then they were the guys who actually went on and qualified, some won medals, some didn’t. But they excelled maybe because it wasn’t so intense for them all the time.
Q: Do you think that’s something that’s being leveled at Ben Whittaker, that he’s maybe taken it a bit too easy and he hasn’t really dedicated himself as much as maybe other people. And did that come back to haunt him a little bit in his match against Liam Cameron? Now the rematch is on the cards. He’s gone away. He is being pretty silent on social media. Do you think he’s going to come back as a different boxer this time?
A: With the Ben Whittaker situation, he blew up didn’t he? In the new age social media and lots of big celebrities wanted to be invested with him. Part of following him and that stuff is amazing. It’s what you dream of and great for your career, great for your opportunities commercially and drive in your boxing. But he doesn’t have the experience yet of dealing with a lot of these situations. Because usually if you’re a household name, it’s because you are Ricky Hatton and you’ve sold out the Manchester Arena half a dozen times. Or you’re David Haye and you’ve gone over and won the heavyweight world title. So you’ve dealt with the boxing and the attention.
But I think Ben Whittaker’s a really good fighter. Like technically he’s one of our best. He’s a very gifted fighter. I think he’s 27 now, so physically, I’m not sure how much more he is gonna develop. He might be peaking now in terms of his boxing ability, but then he needs to marry that in with some experience. Because pro experience is very different from amateur experience. He won a silver medal at the Olympics, but Liam Cameron probably would’ve never got anywhere near that level as an amateur. But in the pros it is real tough work. That’s what Whittaker is gonna be up against. And time and time again, we’ve seen gifted fighters have maybe one thing lacking and they can come unstuck. So it’s up to Ben now to show us that. He’s got the dazzling hands speed, the ring iq, you’ve got every punch in the book, but can you control the man in front of you and put him in his place? And does that mean you need to hit harder? Does that mean you need to punch with more intent? Do you need to be more selective with the punches that you throw? He has just gotta be meaner.
Q: Do you think he underestimated Liam Cameron in that first fight?
A: Probably, I think he did. And Liam Cameron, he’s a lovely guy who’s been on the podcast. He’s someone who you would underestimate. He’s been at rock bottom and you think he couldn’t come back. But he has. Liam kind of felt like he was done wrong with the ban after he tested positive. Because Tyson Fury tested positive and didn’t get a ban. Every now and again someone gets an example made of them and it felt like that was for him. And it also felt like he’d handled it wrong without realising. He told me he wasn’t too stressed about it. He put in an appeal, but got a four year ban. He thought his career was over and therefore his life was over. But he’s got himself back on track and he’s put in some good performances and he could be one fight away from being somebody that everyone wants to get behind.
Q: How are you seeing the rematch between Johnny Fisher and Dave Allen? Are you seeing it differently to how you saw the first one? Or is it gonna be just all out warfare?
A: Well, what does Johnny Fisher do this time round? Does he change stuff up? He came out against Dave Allen, who’s a wily old boy. He’s been in there with some really good fighters and doesn’t go into survival mode, but knows how to get through rounds, knows how to tie you up, knows how to hit you when and you don’t expect it and whatnot. And Johnny sort of just went all in, went for him, tried to put it on him, couldn’t get rid of him, got caught, and then to his credit was in awful big trouble. And then he rallied hard, won that last round. I’d like to see Johnny Fisher to come back and learn from it, implement a bit more boxing knowledge.
You’ve got to up the levels if you’re boxing Dave Allen. If you’re in there with big guys who can take your head off, then you need to learn how to not get knocked out. He knows how to do that. Fisher was on his case and couldn’t really put a major dent in him, but maybe he’s gotta do something different. Has he got to vary the power? Has he gotta change the attack from head to body a little bit better? Not be there to get caught at the end of the exchange. Alan will win big, right hands, in and over, and they might hit you on the top of the head or the side of the head or behind the ear. They’re not the most glamorous shots, but they still count. They hurt and you get away with it. Johnny, hopefully he’s come where he is focused. There’s no demons. No worries about that fight. He can come back and do it right. I personally wouldn’t have been in a major rush for the immediate rematch. I thought maybe have one or two fights and then come back to Dave Allen because it’s always gonna be there and it’s just how it is, it’s boxing. I’m happy he got the win and I’m happy that he seems like he’s in a good place and I think it will mean that he becomes a better fighter. He’s learnt lessons.
Q: The atmosphere will be popping for this one, you’d think?
A: Yeah and there’s gonna be a lot of the Romford Bull Army in there and they might know that Johnny’s going through the levels. He’s gotta learn the job real quick. But we’re in for a good fight.
Q: In terms of Eddie Hearn, he’s been kind of in the spotlight as usual with his million pound bet against Eubank Jr. If you were coming up today and you’ve got Matchroom here, Queensbury there, and they’re both after you. Which direction do you think you’d fancy going? Matchroom route or Queensbury route?
A: The best promoter right now in terms of being able to promote himself is Eddie Hearn. That’s what you wanna be associated with because he’s famous. So if you’re with him and he’s bigging you up. Frank’s got it though. He’s just got it in a different way. He’s a very charming man, Mr. Warren. He has been for a long, long time. Most boxing promoters tend to be.
In terms of navigating a career, Warren’s done it more times than Hearn – took someone from scratch and got ’em all the way through.But in recent years, Joshua’s career is probably the best managed career that I’ve ever seen, which was Eddie Hearn, but also with the help of Sky Sports. They’re all gonna be on DAZN now, so we’ll find out who comes out on top. I think Warren’s signing up more fighters than Eddie is at the moment. They signed up a lot of fighters. But with His Excellency Turki Al-Sheikh, maybe it’s the end of Eddie Hearn and the end of Frank Warren.
Q: How do you see that situation playing out?
A: Any change would bring panic. Initial reaction would be a panic. Like ‘oh, what’s happening here? Is it gonna come undone?’ You always think with boxing, is it there forever or is there one spark that can get rid of it? It could die. I hope not as a fighter. But I don’t always buy into that notion of, ‘oh, it’s too many belts and it’s too confusing for the casual fan’. That’s just something that people in power say when it suits ’em. And then they say the opposite when it doesn’t. It’s like, ‘alright, I’ve got your world champion here’. WBA had two world titles in each division. At one point they had the regular champion. Super champion. If you had the regular belt, but you were a nobody, then you weren’t considered, you’re not really a world champion. But when Canelo wins it, he’s elevated to full world champion. That’s how it is.
Now I boxed in the World Super series and that was really exciting. You knew who was fighting who. You can get a gist of who’s fighting who in boxing, but you don’t have an actual tournament setup I think that would be incredible. I think the weight divisions need to be revolutionised. I’ve said this for quite some time. I think there are too many weight divisions. But also it’s ridiculous that if you can’t make 12st7lbs, you have to go up to 14st. If you can’t make 14st, it’s a free-for-all.
They brought in bridgerweight and people moan because it’s another weight vision, but you need to start dropping out some of these tiny weights. And maybe you just have one every 14lbs. Maybe every 10 kilos, five kilos, something like what the Riyadh Season are proposing with Dana White, I think it’s really exciting. There will be a shift
Q: Eddie Hearn, is now a manager or is he a broadcaster? Is he a promoter or is he a hybrid of all three?
Same with Frank. Maybe Frank thinks ‘I need to have all these guys signed up to my promotion. ’cause all these guys will eventually be fighting in some form of Riyad Season’. And that’s the way to go.
Q: Eddie kind of hinted that maybe he’s thinking about walking away, but you’d find that hard to believe, wouldn’t you?
A: Who knows? He’s had some mega nights, like he got nights that he could never get close to replicating again. Maybe he wants to try something else.
Much like a boxer wants to retire. The bit they’ll miss most is the payday that comes in. Because we don’t get paid weekly. We just get a nice big chunk every time we box. You’ll miss being the man in the arena. Being in the ring and everyone’s come to watch you perform. I’m not sure if Eddie Hearn feels quite like that, but maybe he gets little ticks of that. When he’s there at the press conference or he’s sitting ringside or he can say who fights who.
Q: You mentioned the George Grove Boxing Club podcast earlier – you said you had Liam Cameron on. Who are some of the best guests you’ve had and who are some of the like dream guests you haven’t had on yet?
A: I’d like to get Conor Benn on soon. I’d love to talk to him and it doesn’t need to be the usual questions. I’d like to talk to him about the pressure of this fight with family legacy. And give us some insights, maybe some tips for listeners. He’s an extraordinary character. Because he’s totally invested in being the best version of himself in terms of a fighter. He’s doing it on a level that no one else is really doing. Comparative to what they’ve done in boxing. He wasn’t an Olympian. He hasn’t had major domestic rivalries before getting to this point. He hasn’t even had a world title fight. But you can see that he’s leaving no stone unturned. He leans into scientific training, if you will. He wants to maximize every possibility. What’s that like? What’s that like and how do you train? How do you train the brain? I’d love to get into that with him. Liam Cameron came on. He was a great character. We’ve had Ben Whittaker on. I’m looking forward to that rematch. Both of them spoke brilliantly when they’ve been on. We need to get some top quality Americans on. Now that it’s easy to get people. We don’t always have to fly out to find them.
Q: A couple of questions about your career. Who was the hardest puncher you faced during your years?.
A: I don’t like to give it to Froch. He probably hit me with the hardest punch. I got stopped by Callum Smith who’s a big puncher as well.
Q: Anyone you didn’t expect to punch as hard as they did?
A: There was a guy, it was a Cuban called Louis Garcia who actually got outta Cuba and turned pro in 2008/2009. We went out on a training camp, u17s or u19s for England in Havana. We went out to train with the Cubans. It was with Anthony Ogogo. And we all thought we were fighting these Cubans. Ogogo was the welterweight. I was the middleweight. And I was like fighting this guy and he’s fighting that guy. But then by the time they all showed up for the weigh in, the welterweight, who I thought I was fighting, he’s actually lost six kilos. He’s fighting Ogogo. I was like, he’s a monster though, he’s fighting me. So we did, it was a proper bout. But that turned into a gym bout, like a skills bout. I’ve got it on an old camcorder MiniDisc somewhere. I have to dig it out. Louis Garcia just gave me a right beat down. I was good for the first 15 seconds. Tried to stick it on him and then he just shook it off. Closed my eye in the second round. I think we only did three rounds, maybe four.
But you can see on the video, our England coach, Jim Davidson gets up, with about 15 seconds to go, walks over and rings the bell. That’s the hardest, hardest dude that’s hit me. Lots of the Cubans were sort of agile on their feet and they punched loose and hard, but they weren’t like wrecking balls. Whereas this guy would show up there and the mini bus would drive us in and he would be outside, hitting the sledgehammer on the tire. That was his favorite pastime. I was like, what? I’ve got to fight that guy. He was rock solid. He came over, I think he ended up in Ireland with Mike Perez and someone else…it might have been Glenn McCory or someone was looking after him for a bit. And then they probably ended up in Miami and then boxing over.
What were the biggest lessons you learned from Andy Booth and Paddy Fitzpatrick?
A: Andy Booth’s style of training was coming from an amateur environment where there’s a lot of guys in the gym, a lot of people getting trained the same way, and very one-on-one. Booth would do a lot of pad work and we went through a lot of combinations. It felt like the equivalent of being a football player. It was similar to how David Beckham would practice free kicks over and over again.
Paddy was great. He’d spent some time in California. He’d said he’d be in places like Hollywood, and watch James Toney come in. The stories he’s told me about him had so much detail, I’m sure they’re true. The kind of stories where James would come in after being out all night and just hand everyone their arses on Sunday morning while sparring. I remember leaving Booth and going to Paddy because I needed to learn how to throw combinations. We would do a lot of drills where I’d sit in the pocket where I was in range, trying to find the right angles. I learned a lot of skills from Paddy. When he was on his game, he was a very knowledgeable coach.
In terms of the Super Middleweight Division right now, how do you see it and how do you see it progressing?
A: Well you have Canleo vs Scull which is in Saudi and is the first time Canelo will fight outside of North America/Mexico. I don’t think Scull will pose too many problems but you’ve got to be on your A game. It’ll be great. I think it’s been so dominant, I’ve not heard many huge names coming through. The big name here in the UK will be Callum Simpson, who has been boxing really well lately, and has a massive following in Barnsley. I think they’ll be taking him up to Barnsley for his next show. It’s something to get excited about but I think he is around 28 and has yet to get in there with the elite guys. Crawford is up fighting Canelo –I think that’s exciting. You’ve got to think… Can Crawford win? Pound for pound, is he the best fighter in the world? He possibly could be. Could you back him to beat anyone? Maybe. Can he put even a dent in Canelo when Bivol couldn’t? Probably not. I’m a bit out of touch when it comes to Supper Middleweights. I’m not sure if anyone is going to take the reign from Canelo. Even Benavidez, I think he’ll be going up to heavyweight. He’s so big that he has struggled to make super middleweight before. You could see him up on cruiserweight one day. He’s so big. It’s a good division to be in now.
Cruiserweight is a good division now. Jai Opetaia is very active, very busy. He’s having fights in Australia which are almost off the grid and then he’s back here soon whether it be in the UK, Saudi. Maybe even in America soon. But he is flying. We’ve then got Badou Jack back in action–big name and he’s been around a long time. Chris Billam-Smith is probably the biggest fighter we’ve got from Britain at cruiserweight and he’s talking up a Badou Jack fight which’d be wonderful. He said he’s going to avenge the defeat that Jack inflicted on me nearly ten years ago. If Dmitri Bivol defeats a heavyweight then what else is there to do? I think the rest of the heavyweights would be happy if he moved on. I had this debate on a podcast. I said to strip them. Dex said ‘You can’t strip them’, but if they keep fighting, strip them and take their belts from them. We know they’re the two best. Let someone else fight for a belt. I’d like to see Benavidez fight for a belt and also the long list of Brits we’ve got. Top of the list now is Callum Smith whose win against Joshua Buatsi was great. If you haven’t seen that, then get back and watch it.
Do you think Jake Paul can beat a real world level boxer?
A: I don’t think so. He’s blessed and cursed by his profile where he’s getting paid more money to fight other people than real boxers. He was trying to link himself with Canelo, I’d like to see that. Mayweather does his bit, he’s probably the best businessman there’s ever been in boxing and he knows that I’ve got to pull him around for 10 rounds – he’s a lot bigger than me so I don’t want to roll the dice. Whereas Canelo would just be like ‘I’m going to pulverize him, I’m going to smash him’. You could get under his (Canelo’s) skin if you say the right things. I want to see that fight – I’d pay for that. Let’s see if Paul can get signed for the Riyadh season. Put him in one of these new super tournaments, Dana White will sort it out.
I think boxing is in a fascinating place, really. It seems like Sky is still committed to boxing, and Ben Shalom is looking to improve his stable even more so. We’re getting loads of good, big fights and sometimes we’ve had the likes of Johnny Fisher having rematches, the Ben Whittaker rematches. Do you reckon we’ll get a third Bivol rematch? That’s the debate at the minute. I’ve seen it once, I’ve seen it twice, do I want to see it again? I’m not fussed about this one. They barely cancel each other out. If it was a different time, different era, if Tyson and Holyfield had two twelve rounders with a hair and a whistle between them. You’d want to see a third one because you would want to see Tyson knock people out.
Usyk and Parker: Did you see Parker calling Usyk out?
A: I haven’t seen it but I know it was good. I remember thinking I’ll watch that later. He’s the best when it comes to a call out. It’s strange that Dubois pulled out, I thought he must be ill. Sometimes these things are not necessarily orchestrated in a dodgy way, they just need rescheduling. But then occasionally you look at the timeline and you think ‘by the time we reach the end of this fight, I’m probably going to fight Usyk.’ Who knows. We’ve seen Parker doing really well at the moment so I’d like to see him in with a chance.
Frank Warren was talking about Anthony Joshua the other day, could you see AJ back in the ring soon? Or maybe even poached by Queensbury?
A: Maybe. He’s boxed through and through his whole career hasn’t he? He might even be on the board of directors there or a shareholder or something. He might just be widening his scope. It makes sense that they’re doing so much business together and let the promoters talk up a couple of fights. The longer time goes on without him having a fight or a fight set up, the likelihood is he will not box again. If he doesn’t box again, I think it’s probably the best decision. But when you’ve been boxing for so long, you’re not even sure what the world’s like or what it’ll treat you like if you’re not a boxer anymore. You might be too scared to just call it a day. It might just be that we get Joshua vs Fury. These two have 100% been battling it out about, perhaps money – you always think it’s about money but when it comes down to it, it’s about how you’re perceived. It’s about the legacy and likeability. Who wants to be liked more? If that fight gets set and made, who’s going to get booed on the way in and who’s going to get cheered on the way in? Will they both be cheered or both be booed? Who knows, there’s a lot at stake. One wrong move and it can blow up in your face but I can guarantee that both of these men will be desperate to be cheered on the way in–and certainly cheered after. That will be just as important to them as anything else.
